The letter exchanged between Joseph Khati (COC) and Brian (Ex-COC)
Dear brethren below is an exchanged letter between Brian an ex- member of the Church of Christ and Joseph Khati from Bagdogra Church of Christ. As what i learnt of Brian is, he was once a member of the Church of Christ and now as he left the COC he is commenting many unbiblical and un-authentic things in his website about the Church of the Bible.
Henceforth please use your consent in the below exchanged letter of April 1st to 25th of April 2012. I will be happy to receive comments. All my writings are in Red and Mr Brian's in Black.
The comments you have made about "The Church of Christ"![]()
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Henceforth please use your consent in the below exchanged letter of April 1st to 25th of April 2012. I will be happy to receive comments. All my writings are in Red and Mr Brian's in Black.
The comments you have made about "The Church of Christ"
Inbox
Joseph khati
Apr 1
to freedomquestmi.
Hello sir,
i was quite astonished to see the comments made by you as an Ex-member of the Church of Christ.
Joseph khati
Apr 1
to freedomquestmi.
Hello sir,
i was quite astonished to see the comments made by you as an Ex-member of the Church of Christ.
The first thing i would like to ask is, What wrong did you find in the Church of Christ so that you had to leave it and join a new denomination??
Are you assured that after leaving the Church of Christ you now will be saved? I found many thing in your website which is not the doctrine of the Bible but a human thought and opinion. Opinion and commandments are two different things, opinions are personal but the commandments are universal and applies the same for all for all time.
Please clarify.
In His Service
Joseph Khati
India
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Freedom Quest Ministries freedomquestministries@hotmail.com
Apr 1
to me
Joseph,
I am still a member of the Church of Christ (Jesus' church). I am no longer a member of the denomination called the "Church of Christ." You are not saved by a denomination, you are saved by believing that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.
You may want to read this: www.believeinjesus.org
Freedom Quest Ministries freedomquestministries@hotmail.com
Apr 2
to me
Joseph,
If the Church of Christ denomination is a duplicate of the original church (and they “speak where the Bible speaks, and they are silent where the Bible is silent") then why don't they:
Greet one another with a Holy Kiss? Romans 16:16 says, “Salute one another with an holy kiss.”
Why don't they have signs following them? Jesus said in Mark 16:17-20, “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; (18) They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.”
Why don’t they sell all of their belongings and share everything with each other? Like in Acts 2:45, “And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.”
Why do they forbid to speak in tongues? I Corinthians 14:39 says, “Brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
When someone is sick in your congregation, do the Elders come over and anoint the sick with oil and pray for healing? James 5:14 asks, “Is any sick among you? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.”
Why don’t you meet together, everyday like the early church did? Acts 2:46, “Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts.”
The fact is the Church of Christ denomination sometimes speaks where the Bible speaks and sometimes they are silent when the Bible is silent. The problem is that they are inconsistent. When you ask them if they “Greet one another with a holy kiss,” they will say, “that was just a mid-eastern custom.” But if you ask them if “it is a shame for a woman to cut her hair,” then that is a COMMANDMENT!
The bottom line is that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ. It's all about what JESUS did on the cross, not what somebody does in some puddle of water. It's the blood that remits sin, for without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. Even if baptism was essential, 99% of the protestant church is baptized, so like Hebrews 6 says, let's move on! We baptize every single new believer, just like the Lord told us to. But after the baptism, we teach the new convert to move on to maturity. Why keep looking back at your baptism, when you should be looking forward to Jesus.
Too many churches concentrate on the Body of Christ (the church) instead of its Head. It's all about JESUS (not Alex Campbell)!
In Jesus,
Brian
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Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 10:38:03 +0530
Subject: Re: The comments you have made about "The Church of Christ"
Joseph khati
Apr 3
to Freedom
Hello sir,
Greetings to you, I hope that this mail will find you in sound health.
The Church of Christ is the Original Church which was prophesied by our Lord Jesus Christ in Mat 16:18 and was fulfilled after 50 days of His Resurrection on the day of Pentecost, when The Holy Spirit came upon the 12 Apostles.
Greeting one another with a Holy Kiss had a deep meaning at the time it was written and so it is today. It means to Salute or Greet one another in an affectionate manner; that is, treat each other with kindness and love, and evince all proper marks of affection.
This mode of salutation has been practiced at all times; and particularly in eastern nations. It was even practiced by “men;” You can see in Luke 22:47-48 where Judas came to Kiss Jesus. It was to show love, affection and kindness to one another, the Holy Spirit wants us to show love, affection and Kindness to one another weather with a Kiss or without a Kiss.
(1) This was an extraordinary case.
(2) it was not even enjoined by the apostles on them.
(3) it was practiced nowhere else.
(4) it would be impracticable. No community where all things were held in common has long prospered. It has been attempted often, by pagans, by infidels, and by fanatical sects of Christians. It ends soon in anarchy, licentiousness, idleness, and profligacy; or the more cunning secure the mass of the property, and control the whole. Until all people are made alike, there could be no hope of such a community; and if there could be, it would not be desirable. God evidently intended that people should be excited to industry by the hope of gain; and then he demands that their gains shall be devoted to his service. Still, this was a noble instance of Christian generosity, and evinced the power of religion in loosing the hold which people commonly have on the world. Note: - Mat 26:11 It was a matter of desire for the first century Christians, if they wanted they could give but if not it was not a Sin against the Holy spirit. As we turn to Acts 5:4 we see While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."By this statement we know that even the first century Christian had their belongings in their own control. So it is our desire, if we want to part our belongings to our brethren it is a marvelous decision as Gal 6:10, but if we can't then it is not a Sin.
Before we start our discussion about speaking in tongues let us first see what is tongue speaking? Speaking in Tongue in the Apostle age was not murmuring or shouting with words which has no meaning. This was an exact language of some nation.
i am sorry for the delay, for i was engaged in teaching in the Bible Institute. If you want me to be specific then, You heard, believed, repented, confessed and was baptized? Let me ask you a question then where did you find yourself? in a man made religion or in the Church of Christ? This answer will determine, weather you are saved or Not? I am not being a Judge to decide where you go but by the study of the word of God, i can know who will be saved? Many denominations have a theory and faith that they are saved before the baptism of water at the vary moment when they confess. They take baptism as a formality and for joining some kind of denomination? if so then the purpose of baptism here is not correct. Baptism is the gate to salvation but we must be very clear that it is the entrance gate not the exit one.
John 14:15 Says if we love Him, we keep His commandments. Rev 2:10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
The Crown is promised to only those who are faithful to Christ's commandments until death not going to the right or to the left but standing firm for the sake of Truth. 1 John 5:2-3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
NOTE: - Joh 14:21-24, Joh 8:42, Joh 15:10-14
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 17:48:58 +0530
Joseph khati
Apr 6 (13 days ago)
to Freedom
Hello Sir,
1. The Galatians 5:4
2. Demas 2 Timothy 4:10
3. Simon the soccer Acts 18:18-23
So we can fall from grace if we are not faithful, therefore let us be watchful and keep His commandment not going to the right or to the left but standing firm with the Truth. (James 2:10)
In His service
Joseph Khati
Bagdogra Church of Christ
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Freedom Quest Ministries freedomquestministries@hotmail.com
Apr 6 (12 days ago)
to me
Joseph,
Your God seems to be lacking in Grace. We are saved by Grace through Faith. But your God tries to trick people like an unethical lawyer trying to catch people with a legal loophole. Your God, "Yes, I know you believed in my Son, and you obeyed my commandment to be baptized, BUT you weren't thinking the proper
thoughts when you were being baptized, so GO TO HELL!"
First of all, we see that Paul says that the "circumcision of Christ" is a removal of the flesh that is symbolized in baptism. In the Old Testament, the Jews would circumcise their boys as a part of fulfilling their covenant with God. It was a literal cutting away of the flesh. Baptism was a symbol of dying to the flesh, and rising
to new life in Christ. You notice that Paul says "by the circumcision of Christ having been buried with Him in baptism." Paul is saying that baptism is the circumcision of Christ, "through faith." Now why would this distinction be important to understand? Because in Romans 4:10 Paul states emphatically that Abraham
was considered righteous by faith, BEFORE he was circumcised! He then goes on to say in verse 11, "...and he (Abraham) received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had before he was circumcised ..." In other words, Abraham was counted as righteous before he was circumcised,
and the circumcision was simply a "seal", or an outward sign, of the righteousness that he already had! Which is exactly the case with the "circumcision of Christ" (water baptism). It is an outward sign, or seal, of the righteousness you already possess through faith in Christ Jesus. Another good analogy from the Old Testament regarding baptism and circumcision can be found in Joshua. In Joshua 5:2, we see that the first thing that the Israelites do after they entered the Promised Land was set up an altar and be circumcised.
What a beautiful picture of baptism! First you get saved by faith (enter the Promised Land) then you get baptized (circumcised). The point that the Church of Christ denomination seems to miss is that baptism is SYMBOLIC. They readily chastise the Catholic Church for believing in transubstantiation, yet when it comes
to baptism, the Church of Christ denomination makes the same mistake as the Catholic church: taking something literally that was supposed to be symbolic. The Catholic church says that the bread and wine (during Communion) literally becomes the body and blood of Jesus. The Church of Christ denomination says that baptism actually remits your sins. They say that according to the book of Romans that you are literally buried with Christ through baptism. Noooo… baptism SYMBOLIZES Christ’s death. It SYMBOLIZES your death, burial and resurrection. You don’t come out of the water with dirt in your mouth from being buried, do you? Now, we realize that it can sometimes be hard to discern when something is to be taken literally as opposed to being a type or symbol. When it comes to baptism, though, there are simply too many Scriptures that give the plan of salvation...and leave the subject of baptism out altogether. If baptism was the actual point at which God washes away our sin and imputes to us the righteousness of Christ, why do so many members of the Church of Christ denomination fall away from the Lord?
Keep in mind that Brother Brownlow's answer was "It is not what I believe" that saves me. Paul's answer, on the other hand, is just the opposite. When asked by the jailer, "What must I do to be saved?," the Apostle Paul answers,"Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved!" Mr. Brownlow's answer is a classic example of not being able to see the forest because of the trees! Paul says in Ephesians 2:8&9 that
Are you assured that after leaving the Church of Christ you now will be saved? I found many thing in your website which is not the doctrine of the Bible but a human thought and opinion. Opinion and commandments are two different things, opinions are personal but the commandments are universal and applies the same for all for all time.
Please clarify.
In His Service
Joseph Khati
India
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Freedom Quest Ministries freedomquestministries@hotmail.com
Apr 1
to me
Joseph,
I am still a member of the Church of Christ (Jesus' church). I am no longer a member of the denomination called the "Church of Christ." You are not saved by a denomination, you are saved by believing that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.
You may want to read this: www.believeinjesus.org
In Jesus,
Brian
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Brian
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to Freedom
Greetings brother Brian,
Thank you very much for writing back to me.
I wonder you say that you are still a member of the Church of Christ but claim that "Church of Christ" as a denomination.
I am not a scholar but what i know from my Bible is, The Church of Christ is not a denomination, not one of the denomination, not some of the denomination rather it is the Original Church which was restored by the seekers of THE TRUTH in the due time.
Thomas Campbell, Alexander Campbell were all the seekers of the Truth not the founders of a new denomination.
They didn't formed a new denomination but rather restored the Original Church of the first century. We continually and steadfastly follow the apostles doctrine (i.e. Doctrine of Christ) and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers (Acts 2:42). So how can you say that The Church of Christ is a denomination?
Sir, you may be studying the Bible before i came to the world but you are lacking in this point which you must correct. You are absolutely right that none can be saved staying out from the True and Original Church. A Man/woman can't be saved in a denomination, i agree with you 100%. But my point is Faith only can't save us and just by entering the Church without faith can't save us.
Faith with work will finally save us. But this is not our work which earns salvation for it is the gift of God and His grace.In-order to be saved God has condition for everyone of us and unless we do that none can be assured of salvation.
As we turn our Bible to the book of 2 King 5 we see a man Naaman who had to obey the whole counsel of God. He was not healed until he made the last dip into the water. There was a condition for him to be healed. He dip the first time, he was the same man with leprosy, second time the same, third, forth, fifth and sixth but finally in the seventh he was healed and his flesh was clean like of a little child.
This was a condition for Naaman and for us also there is a condition for Salvation. Simple five steps Hear, Believe, Repent, Confess and be Baptized. By following this we may be called five steppers but we are proud to be so for this is the Pattern of God unto salvation,to enter His kingdom i.e THE CHURCH.
I again appreciate you, writing back to me from your busy schedule.
In His Service
Joseph Khati
The Church of Christ which meets in Bagdogra, India
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Apr 2
to me
Joseph,
If the Church of Christ denomination is a duplicate of the original church (and they “speak where the Bible speaks, and they are silent where the Bible is silent") then why don't they:
Greet one another with a Holy Kiss? Romans 16:16 says, “Salute one another with an holy kiss.”
Why don't they have signs following them? Jesus said in Mark 16:17-20, “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; (18) They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.”
Why don’t they sell all of their belongings and share everything with each other? Like in Acts 2:45, “And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.”
Why do they forbid to speak in tongues? I Corinthians 14:39 says, “Brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
When someone is sick in your congregation, do the Elders come over and anoint the sick with oil and pray for healing? James 5:14 asks, “Is any sick among you? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.”
Why don’t you meet together, everyday like the early church did? Acts 2:46, “Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts.”
The fact is the Church of Christ denomination sometimes speaks where the Bible speaks and sometimes they are silent when the Bible is silent. The problem is that they are inconsistent. When you ask them if they “Greet one another with a holy kiss,” they will say, “that was just a mid-eastern custom.” But if you ask them if “it is a shame for a woman to cut her hair,” then that is a COMMANDMENT!
The bottom line is that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ. It's all about what JESUS did on the cross, not what somebody does in some puddle of water. It's the blood that remits sin, for without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. Even if baptism was essential, 99% of the protestant church is baptized, so like Hebrews 6 says, let's move on! We baptize every single new believer, just like the Lord told us to. But after the baptism, we teach the new convert to move on to maturity. Why keep looking back at your baptism, when you should be looking forward to Jesus.
Too many churches concentrate on the Body of Christ (the church) instead of its Head. It's all about JESUS (not Alex Campbell)!
In Jesus,
Brian
())))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))()
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 10:38:03 +0530
Subject: Re: The comments you have made about "The Church of Christ"
Joseph khati
Apr 3
to Freedom
Hello sir,
Greetings to you, I hope that this mail will find you in sound health.
The Church of Christ is the Original Church which was prophesied by our Lord Jesus Christ in Mat 16:18 and was fulfilled after 50 days of His Resurrection on the day of Pentecost, when The Holy Spirit came upon the 12 Apostles.
Greeting one another with a Holy Kiss had a deep meaning at the time it was written and so it is today. It means to Salute or Greet one another in an affectionate manner; that is, treat each other with kindness and love, and evince all proper marks of affection.
This mode of salutation has been practiced at all times; and particularly in eastern nations. It was even practiced by “men;” You can see in Luke 22:47-48 where Judas came to Kiss Jesus. It was to show love, affection and kindness to one another, the Holy Spirit wants us to show love, affection and Kindness to one another weather with a Kiss or without a Kiss.
We don't have signs following us because signs and Miracles were given for a limited period of time for a special purpose. A miracle is "an act of God superseding or suspending a natural law it is not something natural or something which we can take easy and loose.
We learn from the Scriptures that the purpose of miracles were two fold;
to cause men to believe in the Lord (Jn. 14:11; 3:32), and to confirm His word (Jn. 20:30-31). Jesus promised His disciples the ability to perform miracles in order to confirm the word they would preach (Mk. 16:15-20). We learn from the New Testament that these miracles were performed and did indeed confirm the gospel that was proclaimed (Heb. 2:2-4).
Now the word is conformed and we have the whole approved law of God in our hand which is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. And again in 2 Peter 1:3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue. Therefore we need no more signs and miracles to prove that Jesus is the Christ with all authority. The word itself proves.
Religion does not contemplate, evidently, that people should break up all the arrangements in society, but it contemplates that those who have property should be ready and willing to part with it for the help of the poor and needy. If it be asked, then, whether all the arrangements of property should be broken up now, and believers have all things in common, we are prepared to answer “No.” Because:
Now the word is conformed and we have the whole approved law of God in our hand which is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. And again in 2 Peter 1:3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue. Therefore we need no more signs and miracles to prove that Jesus is the Christ with all authority. The word itself proves.
Religion does not contemplate, evidently, that people should break up all the arrangements in society, but it contemplates that those who have property should be ready and willing to part with it for the help of the poor and needy. If it be asked, then, whether all the arrangements of property should be broken up now, and believers have all things in common, we are prepared to answer “No.” Because:
(1) This was an extraordinary case.
(2) it was not even enjoined by the apostles on them.
(3) it was practiced nowhere else.
(4) it would be impracticable. No community where all things were held in common has long prospered. It has been attempted often, by pagans, by infidels, and by fanatical sects of Christians. It ends soon in anarchy, licentiousness, idleness, and profligacy; or the more cunning secure the mass of the property, and control the whole. Until all people are made alike, there could be no hope of such a community; and if there could be, it would not be desirable. God evidently intended that people should be excited to industry by the hope of gain; and then he demands that their gains shall be devoted to his service. Still, this was a noble instance of Christian generosity, and evinced the power of religion in loosing the hold which people commonly have on the world. Note: - Mat 26:11 It was a matter of desire for the first century Christians, if they wanted they could give but if not it was not a Sin against the Holy spirit. As we turn to Acts 5:4 we see While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."By this statement we know that even the first century Christian had their belongings in their own control. So it is our desire, if we want to part our belongings to our brethren it is a marvelous decision as Gal 6:10, but if we can't then it is not a Sin.
Before we start our discussion about speaking in tongues let us first see what is tongue speaking? Speaking in Tongue in the Apostle age was not murmuring or shouting with words which has no meaning. This was an exact language of some nation.
Acts 2:5-11 When the Apostles opened their mouth in Tongues. (5)And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. (6)And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. (7)Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, "Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? (8)And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born?(9) Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, (10)Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,(11)Cretans and Arabs --- we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God."
These Apostles were speaking in actual languages of the People not like some of the preachers who murmur
claiming that we speak the language of the Angels. The gift of tongues or speaking in other languages were for a special period of time for a special purpose so that the people could believe what they speak of Jesus of Nazareth. And could conform the Word by miracles, signs and tongues. But now we have the fullness of scripture in our hand. The purpose of the tongues has been fulfilled and now we no more receive the gift of Tongues.
Anointing him with oil -Oil, or unguents of various kinds, were much used among the ancients, both in health
and in sickness. The oil which was commonly employed was olive oil. See the Isa 1:6 note; Luk 10:34 note. The custom of anointing the sick with oil still prevails in the East, for it is believed to have medicinal or healing properties. “The southern Arabians believe that to anoint with oil strengthens the body, and secures it against the oppressive heat of the sun, as they go nearly naked. They believe that the oil closes the pores of the skin, and thus prevents the effect of the excessive heat by which the body is so much weakened; perhaps also they regard it as contributing to beauty, by giving the skin a glossy appearance. The oil was used to guard themselves against the heat and harm. Even in History we see The Jews in Mocha assured Mr. Forskal, that the Mohammedans as well as the Jews, in Sana, when they were sick, were accustomed to anoint the body with oil.So Praying with anointing oil at that time was a Practical way of Praying. Prayer with Medicine can
be practical. I don't mean that God is weak and He can't do anything big but if your leg is broken do you
go to the doctor and do plastering or do you just pray only. Yes Prayer is needed but according to 1 John 5:14 we must ask according to His will then only He will answer us.
These Apostles were speaking in actual languages of the People not like some of the preachers who murmur
claiming that we speak the language of the Angels. The gift of tongues or speaking in other languages were for a special period of time for a special purpose so that the people could believe what they speak of Jesus of Nazareth. And could conform the Word by miracles, signs and tongues. But now we have the fullness of scripture in our hand. The purpose of the tongues has been fulfilled and now we no more receive the gift of Tongues.
Anointing him with oil -Oil, or unguents of various kinds, were much used among the ancients, both in health
and in sickness. The oil which was commonly employed was olive oil. See the Isa 1:6 note; Luk 10:34 note. The custom of anointing the sick with oil still prevails in the East, for it is believed to have medicinal or healing properties. “The southern Arabians believe that to anoint with oil strengthens the body, and secures it against the oppressive heat of the sun, as they go nearly naked. They believe that the oil closes the pores of the skin, and thus prevents the effect of the excessive heat by which the body is so much weakened; perhaps also they regard it as contributing to beauty, by giving the skin a glossy appearance. The oil was used to guard themselves against the heat and harm. Even in History we see The Jews in Mocha assured Mr. Forskal, that the Mohammedans as well as the Jews, in Sana, when they were sick, were accustomed to anoint the body with oil.So Praying with anointing oil at that time was a Practical way of Praying. Prayer with Medicine can
be practical. I don't mean that God is weak and He can't do anything big but if your leg is broken do you
go to the doctor and do plastering or do you just pray only. Yes Prayer is needed but according to 1 John 5:14 we must ask according to His will then only He will answer us.
This is a wonderful scenario of having fellowship daily at every members house. But we must be clear that this a fellowship with brethren in Christ not a command, if we can it is wonderful to do fellowship with all our brethren everyday but if we can't then as i stated it is not a Sin but rather Christians are commanded not to forsake assembly on Sunday which is a commandment Heb 10:25, 2 Cor 16:1,2, Acts 2:42 .
No the Church of Christ not sometime but should speakwhere the Bible speaks and be silent where the Bible is silent. You may have seen a few brother from whom you analysed this idea but The Church of Christ is not a man, a woman or particularly a person but it is the body of Christ which is made by the universal member of the Church of Christ. Some may obey the commandments and some may not but that doesn't change the Truth of the Bible. If i keep the commandments i will be blessed but if i don't then i will be condemned.
No the Church of Christ not sometime but should speakwhere the Bible speaks and be silent where the Bible is silent. You may have seen a few brother from whom you analysed this idea but The Church of Christ is not a man, a woman or particularly a person but it is the body of Christ which is made by the universal member of the Church of Christ. Some may obey the commandments and some may not but that doesn't change the Truth of the Bible. If i keep the commandments i will be blessed but if i don't then i will be condemned.
The only gate to Heaven is Baptism without Baptism i can't enter the Kingdom and if i am not in the Kingdom (i.e.Church) how can i reign with the King. So in my bottom line i would like to say Faith alone is dead James 2:17. If faith only could save us then why did Jesus commanded His disciples to go and Preach to the world those who believe and is baptized will be saved. And if baptism was not needed why was it important for Paul and Silas to baptize the household of the Jailer in the mid night? Acts 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized. If baptism was not important then why was it necessary for the household of Cornelius to be baptized after the Baptism of the Holy Spirit? Because water Baptism is a imitation of Christ Death, Burial and resurrection. (Rom 10:1-4) Just as Christ died on the Cross we die for sin, He was buried we are immersed into water baptism and He was resurrected unto the third day so do we come out of the water, born again as a new creature. John 3:3-5 If baptism was not important for Mankind why did Jesus not tell Nicodemus just to have faith in Him and he will be save?
Hope to hear from you soon.
Closing with Prayer
Joseph Khati
Bagdogra Church of Christ
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Freedom Quest Ministries freedomquestministries@hotmail.com
Apr 4
to me
My Brother, Joseph,
I heard, I believed, I repented, I confessed and was baptized...am I saved?
In Jesus,
Brian
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Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 12:16:23 +0530
Joseph khati
Apr 5 (13 days ago)
to Freedom
Hello sir,
Hope to hear from you soon.
Closing with Prayer
Joseph Khati
Bagdogra Church of Christ
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Freedom Quest Ministries freedomquestministries@hotmail.com
Apr 4
to me
My Brother, Joseph,
I heard, I believed, I repented, I confessed and was baptized...am I saved?
In Jesus,
Brian
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Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 12:16:23 +0530
Joseph khati
Apr 5 (13 days ago)
to Freedom
Hello sir,
i am sorry for the delay, for i was engaged in teaching in the Bible Institute. If you want me to be specific then, You heard, believed, repented, confessed and was baptized? Let me ask you a question then where did you find yourself? in a man made religion or in the Church of Christ? This answer will determine, weather you are saved or Not? I am not being a Judge to decide where you go but by the study of the word of God, i can know who will be saved? Many denominations have a theory and faith that they are saved before the baptism of water at the vary moment when they confess. They take baptism as a formality and for joining some kind of denomination? if so then the purpose of baptism here is not correct. Baptism is the gate to salvation but we must be very clear that it is the entrance gate not the exit one.
John 14:15 Says if we love Him, we keep His commandments. Rev 2:10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
The Crown is promised to only those who are faithful to Christ's commandments until death not going to the right or to the left but standing firm for the sake of Truth. 1 John 5:2-3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
NOTE: - Joh 14:21-24, Joh 8:42, Joh 15:10-14
But if your baptism is right in the sight of God and for the right purpose then you enter through the gate to Salvation and in-spite of Lord adding you to His body if you join yourself to some denominations then you lead astray and there is no hope in a denomination but a right baptism with right purpose and for right reason will let you enter into the gate but it is up to you weather you chose Christ to serve or stand against Him holding a new denomination claiming to be far better than what Christ has already set up i.e. "The Church of Christ" To denominate from the original Church is a sin and none is authorized to lay another foundation than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ and His Church which was laid on the day of Pentecost and which is made by the living stones that is the member of the body. 1 Cor 3:11 Study in the light of the word and you will see what God wants from you in your life. if Scholars like you will not understand the Bible accurately then where is the hope for those billions who have never heard about the Truth.
Thank you for your patience and for the love of Truth.
Hope to hear from you soon........
In His service
Joseph Khati
Bagdogra Church of Christ
Bhuttabari, South Bagdogra- 734014
Darjeeling, West Bengal, India
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Freedom Quest Ministries freedomquestministries@hotmail.com
Apr 6 (13 days ago)
to me
My Brother, Joseph,
You did not answer my question: I heard, I believed, I repented, I confessed and was baptized...am I saved?
Are you saying that if I did not realize that the water remmitted my sins that my baptism was of no effect?What if I heard, I believed, I repented, I confessed and was baptized for the remmission of sins, but later thought I was saved by faith...do I lose my salvation?
In Jesus,
Brian
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Thank you for your patience and for the love of Truth.
Hope to hear from you soon........
In His service
Joseph Khati
Bagdogra Church of Christ
Bhuttabari, South Bagdogra- 734014
Darjeeling, West Bengal, India
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Freedom Quest Ministries freedomquestministries@hotmail.com
Apr 6 (13 days ago)
to me
My Brother, Joseph,
You did not answer my question: I heard, I believed, I repented, I confessed and was baptized...am I saved?
Are you saying that if I did not realize that the water remmitted my sins that my baptism was of no effect?What if I heard, I believed, I repented, I confessed and was baptized for the remmission of sins, but later thought I was saved by faith...do I lose my salvation?
In Jesus,
Brian
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Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 17:48:58 +0530
Joseph khati
Apr 6 (13 days ago)
to Freedom
Hello Sir,
Thank you for writing back to me. I hope you are good with your health. I think i had already answered your question in my previous mail but let me repeat it: Yes you were saved "but if your baptism is right in the sight of God and for the right purpose then you enter through the gate to Salvation and in-spite of Lord adding you to His body if you join yourself to some denominations then you lead astray and there is no hope in a denomination but a right baptism with right purpose and for right reason will let you enter into the gate but it is up to you weather you chose Christ to serve or stand against Him holding a new denomination claiming to be far better than what Christ has already set up i.e. "The Church of Christ" "It is not me who decide what should i do to be saved but our Lord Jesus Christ is clear in His statement, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." and what is this born again He makes us clear in His further teaching with Nicodemus that this is a birth of water and Spirit. (John 3:3-5)
(3) Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
(4)Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. (5) For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,
(6)knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.When we imitate His death in Baptism now no more death is dominion over us. But if you say Baptism is not necessary for salvation then tell me how can we imitate Christ Death, Burial and resurrection without water baptism??? The vary moment when you decided to Baptize for the remission of Sin followed by Hearing the word, believing in the word, repenting of your sin, confessing Christ before men and women, the vary moment partaking in baptism will let you enter into salvation but as i already stated that baptism is the entry gate not the exit one that is why we need to be faithful unto death otherwise we may fall from grace. Now you said you were baptized for the right reason and for the right purpose but now you have accepted a doctrine of men. Therefore i suggest you to leave this doctrine which has no truth in it, repent and your sins will be forgiven. Because we learn a lot of people in the Bible who
first entered into the gate of salvation but in later fall from grace.
(4)Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. (5) For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,
(6)knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.When we imitate His death in Baptism now no more death is dominion over us. But if you say Baptism is not necessary for salvation then tell me how can we imitate Christ Death, Burial and resurrection without water baptism??? The vary moment when you decided to Baptize for the remission of Sin followed by Hearing the word, believing in the word, repenting of your sin, confessing Christ before men and women, the vary moment partaking in baptism will let you enter into salvation but as i already stated that baptism is the entry gate not the exit one that is why we need to be faithful unto death otherwise we may fall from grace. Now you said you were baptized for the right reason and for the right purpose but now you have accepted a doctrine of men. Therefore i suggest you to leave this doctrine which has no truth in it, repent and your sins will be forgiven. Because we learn a lot of people in the Bible who
first entered into the gate of salvation but in later fall from grace.
1. The Galatians 5:4
2. Demas 2 Timothy 4:10
3. Simon the soccer Acts 18:18-23
So we can fall from grace if we are not faithful, therefore let us be watchful and keep His commandment not going to the right or to the left but standing firm with the Truth. (James 2:10)
In His service
Joseph Khati
Bagdogra Church of Christ
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Freedom Quest Ministries freedomquestministries@hotmail.com
Apr 6 (12 days ago)
to me
Joseph,
Your God seems to be lacking in Grace. We are saved by Grace through Faith. But your God tries to trick people like an unethical lawyer trying to catch people with a legal loophole. Your God, "Yes, I know you believed in my Son, and you obeyed my commandment to be baptized, BUT you weren't thinking the proper
thoughts when you were being baptized, so GO TO HELL!"
First of all, we see that Paul says that the "circumcision of Christ" is a removal of the flesh that is symbolized in baptism. In the Old Testament, the Jews would circumcise their boys as a part of fulfilling their covenant with God. It was a literal cutting away of the flesh. Baptism was a symbol of dying to the flesh, and rising
to new life in Christ. You notice that Paul says "by the circumcision of Christ having been buried with Him in baptism." Paul is saying that baptism is the circumcision of Christ, "through faith." Now why would this distinction be important to understand? Because in Romans 4:10 Paul states emphatically that Abraham
was considered righteous by faith, BEFORE he was circumcised! He then goes on to say in verse 11, "...and he (Abraham) received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had before he was circumcised ..." In other words, Abraham was counted as righteous before he was circumcised,
and the circumcision was simply a "seal", or an outward sign, of the righteousness that he already had! Which is exactly the case with the "circumcision of Christ" (water baptism). It is an outward sign, or seal, of the righteousness you already possess through faith in Christ Jesus. Another good analogy from the Old Testament regarding baptism and circumcision can be found in Joshua. In Joshua 5:2, we see that the first thing that the Israelites do after they entered the Promised Land was set up an altar and be circumcised.
What a beautiful picture of baptism! First you get saved by faith (enter the Promised Land) then you get baptized (circumcised). The point that the Church of Christ denomination seems to miss is that baptism is SYMBOLIC. They readily chastise the Catholic Church for believing in transubstantiation, yet when it comes
to baptism, the Church of Christ denomination makes the same mistake as the Catholic church: taking something literally that was supposed to be symbolic. The Catholic church says that the bread and wine (during Communion) literally becomes the body and blood of Jesus. The Church of Christ denomination says that baptism actually remits your sins. They say that according to the book of Romans that you are literally buried with Christ through baptism. Noooo… baptism SYMBOLIZES Christ’s death. It SYMBOLIZES your death, burial and resurrection. You don’t come out of the water with dirt in your mouth from being buried, do you? Now, we realize that it can sometimes be hard to discern when something is to be taken literally as opposed to being a type or symbol. When it comes to baptism, though, there are simply too many Scriptures that give the plan of salvation...and leave the subject of baptism out altogether. If baptism was the actual point at which God washes away our sin and imputes to us the righteousness of Christ, why do so many members of the Church of Christ denomination fall away from the Lord?
There is an atheist organization in Illinois called Skeptics Inc. whose entire board of directors are almost all EX-Church of Christ denomination preachers! Why? Legalism kills! As with all issues of faith, the letter of the Law brings death, but he Spirit brings life! (II Corinthians 3:6)
The Church of Christ denomination claims that they "have no creed but the Bible, " but in reality many in the Church of Christ denomination have a book that they use as a "guideline" for church doctrine. It is called, "Why I am a Member of the Church of Christ," by Leroy Brownlow. Chapter 14 is entitled, "Because It Gives Scriptural Answers To the Question- What Must I Do To Be Saved." This chapter would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad to see to what extent the Church of Christ denomination will go to promote their position on baptism. In this chapter Brother Brownlow dissects the question, "What must I do to be saved?" He examines the question word by word. When he gets to the word "do", he says, "It is not what I must get, think, feel or believe.
The word "do" suggests activity on the part of the man being saved. Salvation is not a matter of passiveness, but of activity. God saves; still man saves himself by obeying the gospel, God's power to save (Rom. 1:16, Acts 2:40). Take the word "do" out of Christianity and you destroy it. You never read of an inspired man telling a sinner that there is nothing for him to do to be saved." Now I don't know about you, but I would consider the Apostle Paul to be an "inspired man", and oddly enough he is the only man recorded in scripture to have ever been asked this question verbatim, "What must I do to be saved?" It was asked of him by the Philippian jailer in Acts 16:30.
Keep in mind that Brother Brownlow's answer was "It is not what I believe" that saves me. Paul's answer, on the other hand, is just the opposite. When asked by the jailer, "What must I do to be saved?," the Apostle Paul answers,"Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved!" Mr. Brownlow's answer is a classic example of not being able to see the forest because of the trees! Paul says in Ephesians 2:8&9 that
"We are saved by GRACE through FAITH and not of ourselves, it is a GIFT of God, NOT as a result of WORKS, that no one should boast." If you ever stand before Christ Jesus and He asks you why should He let you into Heaven... you had better say, "Because of what You did for me on the cross," not, "Because I was baptized"!
Truth is always true. If you believe a certain doctrine, but through the study of God's Word, you find that your belief is not upheld scripturally (even if only once), then you need to seriously re-examine that belief. Regarding baptismal regeneration, a good case in point can be found in Acts 10:1-48. Here we find an example of a man named Cornelius, receiving the Holy Spirit, evidenced by " speaking in tongues and exalting God." And being amazed by the whole ordeal, the Apostle Peter (who had been preaching the gospel to the Cornelius household when the Holy Spirit fell upon all of them) stated in verse 47, "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did..." Clearly we have in this example, a case where a person was obviously saved before he was water baptized. The Apostle Peter declares their salvation by saying that they had "received the Holy Spirit, just like we did!" The only way around this scenario is to deny that a person that is filled with the Holy Spirit (evidenced by speaking in tongues and glorifying God) is actually saved. And believe it or not, that is exactly what the Church of Christ denomination says! It never ceases to amaze me what some people are willing to swallow in order to protect what they feel is biblical, even if it denies the very Bible they seek to uphold.
It is really the Apostle Paul that puts the icing on the cake on the issue of baptism, by stating in I Cor. 1:17, "Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel!" Now if baptism is the point of salvation, this statement would be utterly blasphemous. But in reality, it simply confirms what the rest of the Bible already
teaches... that we are saved by grace, not works of any kind! As human beings, it is in our nature to want to earn our salvation. There is nothing wrong with wanting to please God!
It is really the Apostle Paul that puts the icing on the cake on the issue of baptism, by stating in I Cor. 1:17, "Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel!" Now if baptism is the point of salvation, this statement would be utterly blasphemous. But in reality, it simply confirms what the rest of the Bible already
teaches... that we are saved by grace, not works of any kind! As human beings, it is in our nature to want to earn our salvation. There is nothing wrong with wanting to please God!
The problem comes in when the way we want to please God conflicts with the way He wants it. If we look at Romans 10:9-10, we see God giving us the plan of salvation in a very simple and straightforward way.
The Apostle Paul says that we are saved by confessing that Jesus is (our) Lord! Now that can't be true, can it? We don't get saved by simply believing and confessing that Jesus is Lord, do we? That is just too easy.
The Apostle Paul says that we are saved by confessing that Jesus is (our) Lord! Now that can't be true, can it? We don't get saved by simply believing and confessing that Jesus is Lord, do we? That is just too easy.
There must be more to it than that, isn't there? Don't we have to do something to earn it? According to human wisdom, we have to deserve such a great gift. But in issues of life and salvation, sometimes we have to set aside our earthly "wisdom" and simply accept God at His Word. It's like the bumper sticker that says, "God said it; I believe it; and that settles it." Whether we understand God's Mercy and Grace or not, doesn't change His terms. He has made it simple so that anyone can be saved. But man comes along and tries to make it "better." But you cannot improve on perfection! God's ways are higher than our ways, and He says that salvation is a gift, that no one can earn. So my advice is to take God at his word and receive the greatest gift ever offered; Salvation by Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ!
Many members of the Church of Christ denomination will then ask the question, "If you get saved by believing, then are the demons saved, because James 2:19 says, 'You believe that there is one God; you do well: the devils also believe, and tremble. "Answer? The demons are a different species than humans. We don't know if there is a plan of salvation for demons (fallen Angels) any more than we do for dogs or cats. It's a typical Church of Christ denomination straw man argument. The question to ask them back is: "I don't know if the demons can get saved by grace through faith or not, but do you think baptism will save a demon?" They usually look at you like you just insulted their mother. Why? Because they realize what a foolish argument they just proposed. That's what happens though, when you are constantly grasping at straws...eventually one will break your camel's back. Hebrews 6:1-3 says, "Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance
from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And God permitting, we will do so." It's time to "move on to maturity, brother.
In Jesus,
Brian
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Joseph Khati
Apr 8 (10 days ago)
to Freedom
Hello sir,
It is so sad to learn that you are ingrained with such a doctrine which is not of the Bible. You had some emotional words which were really good to hear but we must understand the exact plan of God.
We know that Human being is an emotional being but we must control our emotion so if it is a hindrance
to the soundness of the word of God. We see many examples in the Bible that Cain killed his brother because he couldn't control his emotion (Anger) Ahab cause the death of Naboth because he
couldn't control his emotion (Jealousy and envy) David committed adultery for the uncontroled emotions (Lust) Emotion is good in some ways but it is not good to be pulled in the clear commandments of God to make comfortable for us and to let support our own doctrines. I can understand that we do not earn salvation, it is the gift of God but please review these facts of the Bible.
A. Baptism is a confession of the Lordship of Christ.
Many members of the Church of Christ denomination will then ask the question, "If you get saved by believing, then are the demons saved, because James 2:19 says, 'You believe that there is one God; you do well: the devils also believe, and tremble. "Answer? The demons are a different species than humans. We don't know if there is a plan of salvation for demons (fallen Angels) any more than we do for dogs or cats. It's a typical Church of Christ denomination straw man argument. The question to ask them back is: "I don't know if the demons can get saved by grace through faith or not, but do you think baptism will save a demon?" They usually look at you like you just insulted their mother. Why? Because they realize what a foolish argument they just proposed. That's what happens though, when you are constantly grasping at straws...eventually one will break your camel's back. Hebrews 6:1-3 says, "Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance
from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And God permitting, we will do so." It's time to "move on to maturity, brother.
In Jesus,
Brian
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Joseph Khati
Apr 8 (10 days ago)
to Freedom
Hello sir,
It is so sad to learn that you are ingrained with such a doctrine which is not of the Bible. You had some emotional words which were really good to hear but we must understand the exact plan of God.
We know that Human being is an emotional being but we must control our emotion so if it is a hindrance
to the soundness of the word of God. We see many examples in the Bible that Cain killed his brother because he couldn't control his emotion (Anger) Ahab cause the death of Naboth because he
couldn't control his emotion (Jealousy and envy) David committed adultery for the uncontroled emotions (Lust) Emotion is good in some ways but it is not good to be pulled in the clear commandments of God to make comfortable for us and to let support our own doctrines. I can understand that we do not earn salvation, it is the gift of God but please review these facts of the Bible.
A. Baptism is a confession of the Lordship of Christ.
- Matthew 10:32.
- Matthew 21:28-31.
C. Baptism is a confession that man is a sinner.
cradling sin and one day, you must be accountable for holding this position. I don't say that baptism is the final gate of Salvation for through Baptism you enter into salvation but you want to boycott Baptism and still want to enter the Kingdom then that is impossible. Baptism is essential and without it you can't reign in the Kingdom (Church) with Christ. Study your Bible and try to understand the context before you compel yourself for any outcome.
In His service
Joseph Khati
Bagdogra Church of Christ
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- Acts 2:38.
- Acts 22:16.
- Matthew 28:18-20.
- "It's still thar".
- Acts 22:16.
- "Calling on the name of the Lord."
- Romans 6:3.
- Romans 6:4-11.
- operation of God. - Colossians 2:11-12.
cradling sin and one day, you must be accountable for holding this position. I don't say that baptism is the final gate of Salvation for through Baptism you enter into salvation but you want to boycott Baptism and still want to enter the Kingdom then that is impossible. Baptism is essential and without it you can't reign in the Kingdom (Church) with Christ. Study your Bible and try to understand the context before you compel yourself for any outcome.
In His service
Joseph Khati
Bagdogra Church of Christ
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Joseph Khati
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